Cheats, exploits, and glitches - where do you draw the line??

Hi all,

I play on XBOX mainly, and have come across a few 'exploits' that I have used, with mixed feelings of gratification, shame, etc...

I would like to know how everyone else approaches this - what types of 'exploits' are acceptable for you, and what do you consider cheating?

Is anything that the game will allow you to do (without mods or console commands) fair game, or should we try and play the game the way we think 'the developer intended?' How do we know? Don't they know about these exploits and leave them un-patched?

What about game guides/wiki? Should we use them when we get stuck, or should we just abandon our objective?

Please can someone help me with this moral dilemma?

It's certainly tempting, but I (a PC player) have only used outright "cheats" when I had painted myself into a corner, and my own shortsightedness was keeping me from enjoying the rest of the game. (The "~kill" I had executed on a Draugr Death Overlord, after being one-shot-pwn3d eighteen or nineteen times because I chose that quest at too low a level, comes painfully to mind.)

As an RPer I tend to shun the usual "power-leveling" exploits. I don't craft 23,495,872,934,578 iron daggers to grind the smithing tree, nor do I enchant them all with Banish and sell them for silly amounts of money. My progress through the game is as realistic as possible.

I even consider fast traveling a kind of "cheat" in a game like this, and subsequently I only use it when on particular quests that require me to shuttle from Whiterun to Dungeon A, where I've already been, and back again. I only have a couple hours a day to play this game, and if I've already explored an area, I don't want to spend 45 minutes trekking through it again.

I'm the opposite when it comes to grinding, I mean once you get say level 80 the only way to progress is grinding. I probably got to lvl 100 as naturally as you can I never bought leather that was the rule I put on myself but really what would be the point of collecting the resource for and crafting the ebony armour and weapons for an army? (though it would be cool if you could sell or give full sets to a Jarl who then begins to deck out his guard)

The game is designed in a manner that to develop to level 100 or to a level where the skill is beneficial to the character you must create things you don't need and in abundance.

I'm level 100 in enchanting and smithing, I have a chest full of stuff I could enchant and stuff I could sell but I only actually have 40k gold and the houses in Whiterun and Markarth so it's not as though you amass an insane, game-breaking fortune. You get to the point where your armour and weapons are powerful but in the end that's your reward for working at that (or those) skill/s as opposed to spending your time looting dungeons.

Herxes wrote:what would be the point of collecting the resource for and crafting the ebony armour and weapons for an army?

I don't know, but all my followers look awesome. Every time I take on a follower, I make it my job to equip them with the best gear I can muster. I consider it part of the game.

And actually, when I'm RPing, I don't really consider 100 skill points to be the final goal. If I'm only at, say, 85, and I can still get through tough enemies, then it matters less to me than the role-playing experience.

I took the smithing skill and to a lesser degree enchanting to be jobs, as a blacksmith it seems natural to create and sell armour. It was also a personal quest to create the most powerful armour and weapons I could wield.

One thing I found disappointing though was the daedric armour or more specifically daedra hearts. For an age I only had three hearts (from the black/ Azura's star quest) so I worked my way up to dragonplate to substitute the gauntlets shield and boots (used the hearts for a helmet, chest and sword) I then did the Mehrune's Razor quest and finally completed the set. Following that they just seem to turn up everywhere.

I go to sell some potions to Arcadia...

Arcadia: you look rather pale, could be ataxia...

Me: Um yeah ... Just wanted to sell you these potions...

Arcadia: Potions, salves anything you need to....

Me: yeah... Can you just buy these potions they're clogging up my inventory...

Arcadia: white cap mushroom?

Me: Uh .. No .. Thanks why would I buy that they're like everywhere ...

Arcadia: Bee?

Me: Bee?! What am I going to do with a bee... Is it alive or dead? ... No wait I don't care about these potions I have for sale...

Arcadia: Lavender?

Me: Dude, just buy these potions...

Arcadia: daedra heart?

Me: No... Wait! What was that last one?

Arcadia: Lavender?

Me: No, did you just say daedra heart? Ive been scouring the face of Skyrim hunting demons to cut out their hearts and you sell them with grass and cow spit?!

The freaking Riverwood trader had a Daedra heart for sale when I was still only level 9. RRRRRGH.

Just seems crazy to me, I mean did Arcadia just find a daedra heart lying around when she went out to pick mountain flowers? Or does she moonlight as a badass demon hunter with annoying dialogue? "you seem pale, maybe it's because I killed you and tore your daedra heart out"

Herxes wrote:I'm the opposite when it comes to grinding, I mean once you get say level 80 the only way to progress is grinding. I probably got to lvl 100 as naturally as you can I never bought leather that was the rule I put on myself but really what would be the point of collecting the resource for and crafting the ebony armour and weapons for an army? (though it would be cool if you could sell or give full sets to a Jarl who then begins to deck out his guard)

The game is designed in a manner that to develop to level 100 or to a level where the skill is beneficial to the character you must create things you don't need and in abundance.

I'm level 100 in enchanting and smithing, I have a chest full of stuff I could enchant and stuff I could sell but I only actually have 40k gold and the houses in Whiterun and Markarth so it's not as though you amass an insane, game-breaking fortune. You get to the point where your armour and weapons are powerful but in the end that's your reward for working at that (or those) skill/s as opposed to spending your time looting dungeons.

I agree with this Herxes... once you get up to 80 or so it takes FOREVER to skill up. I also see Minus2's point about the end goal not being to get to 100. The prob I have is some of my favorite perks require 100 or 90 skill to get, and it would be a shame to not enjoy those perks... right?

Anyways - thanks for the help guys - I really appreciate the insight. I think at the end of the day Skyrim is for entertainment. And as long as I am enjoying it I'm doing it right I think, exploits or no... and one can just start a new character and do it completely differently next time and see what that play through is like... love this game!

Herxes wrote:I took the smithing skill and to a lesser degree enchanting to be jobs, as a blacksmith it seems natural to create and sell armour. It was also a personal quest to create the most powerful armour and weapons I could wield.

One thing I found disappointing though was the daedric armour or more specifically daedra hearts. For an age I only had three hearts (from the black/ Azura's star quest) so I worked my way up to dragonplate to substitute the gauntlets shield and boots (used the hearts for a helmet, chest and sword) I then did the Mehrune's Razor quest and finally completed the set. Following that they just seem to turn up everywhere.

I go to sell some potions to Arcadia...

Arcadia: you look rather pale, could be ataxia...

Me: Um yeah ... Just wanted to sell you these potions...

Arcadia: Potions, salves anything you need to....

Me: yeah... Can you just buy these potions they're clogging up my inventory...

Arcadia: white cap mushroom?

Me: Uh .. No .. Thanks why would I buy that they're like everywhere ...

Arcadia: Bee?

Me: Bee?! What am I going to do with a bee... Is it alive or dead? ... No wait I don't care about these potions I have for sale...

Arcadia: Lavender?

Me: Dude, just buy these potions...

Arcadia: daedra heart?

Me: No... Wait! What was that last one?

Arcadia: Lavender?

Me: No, did you just say daedra heart? Ive been scouring the face of Skyrim hunting demons to cut out their hearts and you sell them with grass and cow spit?!

LOL as usual - love your posts man...!!

OK - what about using wikis/game guides to find quests and items? A good example of this is that I haven't found the drunk guy tyhat starts you on the "Night to remember" daedric quest, or the quest where you get the dawnbreaker sword. I feel like if I don't go to the wiki to find these quests, the likelihood that I will 'stumble' on them is very slim.

My philosophy is that I play through the game the first time using guides as little as possible to minimize spoilers, but once I get through most of the game, I will go and use the guides to find the things that I may have missed... agree?

I suppose the other alternative is starting another character and hoping i stumble on some of these things on my next play through. I like this idea, too, because that keeps the game fresh with new surprises on subsequent play throughs, but i always worry that I am going to completely miss some exciting in-game experiences if I go this route...

I stumbled on both of those quests I did wiki the spellbreaker though, I really wanted it and I'm glad I did because I never would have found it naturally.

Found Dawnbreaker looking for Solitude. Imagine me and Lydia both in full orcish armour trudging along and a shrine says "hey clear out my temple?" and me all like "clear out? I'm a thane not a removal guy, watch. Lydia, I want to trade some stuff with you" Lydia of course says "I'm swooorn to carry your burdens" and I'm like "see, royalty, not got time for this junk" then the daedric prince is like "I mean kill some stuff" so I change my tune "oh, ok show me where it's at" and the prince is all "undead stuff and a necromancer are defiling...." and I'm like "yeah, yeah, whatever let's go, where's the meat. Oh and if you're a prince, why are you a woman or the other way around or whatever?"

Most if that's paraphrased by the way and missing some elements. So anyway cut a long story short, this game's so massive that if I keep seeing people mention something awesome and in all my travels I've not happened upon it eventually I'll wiki it.

HAHA - thanks for the post! I have walked into every bar in Skyrim looking for a drunk guy, but not just any drunk guy, a 'special' drunk guy. and I ask the bartender "have you heard any rumors lately - specifically about a drunk guy who holds the key to omnipotent power?" and they say "the Jarl's men came by with this ransom note - yeah, they wan't you to kill that same giant you already killed three times." argh... I will have to wiki it ...